Well, it got people talking again about MoveOn.org…ultimately, that was the purpose. Not convince or inform people of something, rather, to make the headlines.

Oh, come on, Glen. Don’t be a pantywaist about it — make your next Little Music City Footballs post saying how much Osama bin Laden sounds like a lefty blogger! After all, it’s not like wingers are bright enough to understand reverse psychology, or anything.
.

Sean is right.

But even beyond that… Why is it that the right is more obsessed with the messenger than they are the message itself? How can anyone doubt that Petraeus is simply the guy to cook the books in the White House’s favor? The White House cuts loose every general that refuses to carry water.

If MoveOn were the beating heart of the Democratic Party they wouldn’t have needed to run that add, or launch their campaigns targeting pro-war Democrats.

I’d say it’s more accurate to depict MoveOn as the hot poker trying to prod the Democratic Party in the right (left) direction.

As for the ad itself, Ed Schultz said it would be “red meat for the righties,” and he was right. I don’t necessarily disagree with the sentiment — keep in mind, it ran in the New York Times, for heaven’s sake — but I think, rather predictably, it has been used by the right wing noise machine to change the debate from being about Petraeus and Crocker to being about MoveOn. And that’s unfortunate, albeit not surprising.

Oh and Glen, it’s Democratic Party.

Second time you’ve done that. I know you’re doing it to be annoying. Grow up already, wouldja?

Yeah, Republicans say Democrats hate the military…..all this does is reinforce that argument.

SB, if people stop commenting on posts using ‘Democrat’ for ‘Democratic’ I have the feeling Glen will stop using it.

Gman, the worst thing I’ve ever heard a Democrat say about the military is that their commander-in-chief is a tool who has fastidiously surrounded himself with a network of yes-men who have aided his effort to put their lives at risk unnecessarily. Much like all of his predecessors have found out, if Petraeus refused to carry the White House’s water on the war, he would be replaced.

SB, if people stop commenting on posts using ‘Democrat’ for ‘Democratic’ I have the feeling Glen will stop using it.

Yeah, but that’s like saying on a blog comment thread, “if you don’t respond to trolls, they’ll stop posting.” I mean, sure, but it will never happen.

For the record, I didn’t even notice the missing -ic until after my first response. Which shows you how de-sensitized I’ve become to the whole thing.

Rick Maynard wrote: “Gman, the worst thing I’ve ever heard a Democrat say about the military is that their commander-in-chief is a tool who has fastidiously surrounded himself with a network of yes-men…..”

Need I remind you of President Bill Clinton who is on record for saying that he “loathed” the American military?

Rick, never said they were right or wrong….just making a point that this ad helps make it look like they were right. Also, didn’t the Senate unanimously approve Petraeus? So the “Heart of the Democratic Party”, Moveon.org is attacking a guy that their party voted to approve. Again, it looks like they are helping to reinforce the perception.

I don’t know the context of what Bill Clinton said but I don’t think that in any way makes up for the truly horrid campaigns Conservatives have waged against decorated war veterans like John Kerry, John Murtha and Max Clelland. Attacking their war records, it was shameless.

Basically the only troops they support are the ones who support BushCo and his Iraq debacle. Any military veteran who speaks out against the war is fair game to them. They even attacked that soldier who asked Rumsfeld why they have to uparmor their vehicles with stuff they found on the ground. I don’t see how keeping soldiers from getting the equipment they need is “supporting” the troops.

Actually, JD, he didn’t. Here’s the quote for the factually challenged:

I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give.

Before you go on and takeeven that ridiculously out of context, I would recommend actually . He was talking about the draft and saying that’s why many people don’t like the military.

Yes, I would agree that this ad reinforces the perception of the Democratic Party hating the military. Some of the comments made to Petraeus from the representatives also came across as disrespectful to some.

Gman,

For far too long, Democrats have remained quiet and refused to say the things that needed to be said because we were afraid of how it would be perceived.

Know what we learned in that time? We’re going to be falsely attacked anyway, so let’s just get it out there.

We didn’t want to be attacked for being unwilling to defend our nation… And so Democrats ended up voting for the war in Iraq. We didn’t want to be viewed as obstructionists, so we rolled over for this president at every turn.

And what did we get out of it? He tried to make us politically extinct anyway. I have never seen a majority leader as gutless to opposition as Tom Daschle, yet he was branded an obstructionist and the full weight of the RSCC was thrown into defeating him.

We need to worry less about how our words will be twisted and more about saying what needs to be said. And saying that Petraeus’s job depends upon his ability to shore up a wall of BS— That needs to be said.

Southern Beale,

It has become readily apparent over the last few years that “supporting the troops” has a different definition for Bush Leaguers.

1. Send them into war unnecessarily.
2. Keep boots on the ground indefinitely once 1. is complete.
3. Send them in without proper body armor. Blame Democrats.
4. Extend their tours of duty.
5. Park them in the Roach Wing of Walter Reed, then whine about the “liberal media” covering the story.
6. Ignore the rising body count. The surge is working!
7. Cry like a small child with a skinned knee when a media outlet mentions the war without “The surge is working!” as the final sentence of the story.
8. Demand tax cuts in the midst of a half trillion dollar (So far) war while the troops are armoring their vehicles with debris found on the road.

For far too long, Democrats have remained quiet and refused to say the things that needed to be said because we were afraid of how it would be perceived.

I definitely believe this to be true. That’s one of the major problems for me with the Dems….I have a hard time pinning down exactly where they stand vs. them feeding me a line of BS because it is what I want to hear.

the truly horrid campaigns Conservatives have waged against decorated war veterans like John Kerry, John Murtha and Max Clelland

Kerry and Murtha deserve respect for their military service and war records, but saying that basically all soldiers were guilty of committing atrocities was inexcusable.

I have never understood the rationale of ” they served in the military so they get a pass for the rest of their life.” The thing is, the Dems don’t really believe it themselves. If they did, McCain would be their guy instead of the Hildebeast.

McCain would be their guy instead of the Hildebeast.

So it’s no longer Hitlery, huh? Is that out of vogue?

Regardless, I’ll keep this one on file for the next time you’re talking about how Republicans are forever “raising the standards of the discourse.” You’re reduced to talking about Clinton as an African herd animal?

If they did, McCain would be their guy instead of the Hildebeast.

Um, Glen, hon, Democrats didn’t attack John McCain’s war record. I do believe it was Karl Rove and the Bush campaign that accused McCain of having an illegitimate black child and being too mentally unstable from his POW years to be fit to serve.

A. McCain isn’t in the Democratic Party. So that’s about as inane as if I complained that you guys aren’t considering Obama as the Republican candidate in ‘08.

B. McCain lost all respect that I had for him when he went onstage at the 2004 GOP Convention and joined the GW Bush Kiss My Ass Club. After the attacks they ran on his little girl in 2000, a real man would have left Dubya’s teeth up on the stage.

C. What makes you think none of us were McCain people once upon a time? I was a moderate Republican until Republicans showed what they thought of moderates by tossing McCain overboard for Bush. It kind of got me thinking about things… And as many of you know, once you actually start thinking, it’s hard to be a Republican anymore.

D. It is absolutely disgraceful the way Republicans treat Democratic veterans, but expect us to pretend that the feces of their own veterans does not stink. John McCain suffered a great deal in the Hanoi Hilton. Is he more deserving of our gratitude than Max Cleland, the uni-limbed Georgia Senator that Saxby Chambliss morphed into pictures of Saddam Hussein?

Hmmm, looks like MoveOn isn’t the only group who doesn’t like Petraeus: his own boss, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), called Petraeus an “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and added, “I hate people like that.”

Guess the Admiral is an “extremist,” too.

Oh snap!

Rick, here’s another one: Focus On The Family laying off employees, donations down.

Moveon.org is not the beating heart of the Democratic Party. It is the malignant brain tumor of the Democratic Party.

Hmmm, looks like MoveOn isn’t the only group who doesn’t like Petraeus: his own boss, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), called Petraeus an “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and added, “I hate people like that.”

Why does the chief of CENTCOM hate our troops? Dirty F’in Hippie.
.

Moveon.org is not the beating heart of the Democratic Party. It is the malignant brain tumor of the Democratic Party.

I don’t know who to think more for November, 2006 — them, or you and your ilk.

But thanks, just the same!

.

Let’s talk on Nov. 4th 2008.

Then we can debate the effectiveness of Moveon.org. There are always more squares than cool kids. Is pissing them off really the road map you think will win?

Then we can debate the effectiveness of Moveon.org. There are always more squares than cool kids. Is pissing them off really the road map you think will win?

Moveon aside, if you wanna place a bet on 2008, I’m sure Ivy or KatCo will hold our cash.
.

No Miss Beale and others, Glen has it right. “Democratic” is a type of government - “Democrat” is a political party. Simply put, “democratic” is an adjective. It is not a noun.

No, Kevin, you’re wrong, and Glen is wrong, and all of you GOP party loyalists are participating in a sham and charade.

“Democrat” is a noun. “Democratic” is an adjective. We don’t call you GOOPers “Republic” party members.

I’d offer to buy Kevin a dictionary, but I doubt he’d have a shelf to put it on.

Actually I use the Merriam Webster online dictionary. W-M.org
And it is a very old argument that was taught to me by my favorite English teacher in Junior High.

The deal is, just because the majority rules - (in this case the majority says ‘Democratic Party’) - doesn’t mean the the majority is always right. By the way, I’m a liberal, and I agree more often with Democrats than with Republicans. Or, would that be the Republicanic Party?

Heh. Andy called Kevin a GOP party loyalist. Must not come around here too much.
-
About the UPDATE to this post, anybody want to comment on that? Didn’t think so.

Hey JP, I’ll hold your cash

Yeah, Andy sets a new high score on the dumbometer, but it’s nowhere near Jesus’ General calling Brit a right-wing shill over at the old NIT. Now that was high comedy.

No kidding. Kevin a GOPer and Brittney a right wing shrill. Kind of makes me wonder what those folks on the left coast are going to think of Brittney. She’ll probably be too conservative for the People’s Republic of San Francisco.

What’s important to remember in all the knee-jerk Patraeus support is what the president told the nation about the surge, in January:

“To establish its authority, the Iraqi government plans to take responsibility for security in all of Iraq’s provinces by November. To give every Iraqi citizen a stake in the country’s economy, Iraq will pass legislation to share oil revenues among all Iraqis. To show that it is committed to delivering a better life, the Iraqi government will spend $10 billion of its own money on reconstruction and infrastructure projects that will create new jobs. To empower local leaders, Iraqis plan to hold provincial elections later this year. And to allow more Iraqis to re-enter their nation’s political life, the government will reform de-Baathification laws, and establish a fair process for considering amendments to Iraq’s constitution.”

As Editor & Publisher notes, “None of this happened.”
.

“Democrat” is a noun. “Democratic” is an adjective. We don’t call you GOOPers “Republic” party members.

Andy really doesn’t like that. So be nice. Be considerate. Be kind.

Of course I did that for months because it is funny to watch Andy go off.

For extra fun call them the Democratics. Good times.

Please don’t provoke a vicious Democratical response, #9

Heh. Andy called Kevin a GOP party loyalist. Must not come around here too much.

Kevin - my apologies. Normally, Democratic Party folks don’t participate in the GOP script. I should have found out more before popping off at you.

Glen - no, I really don’t. Have a good hearty laugh. You won that one. Here’s your Gold Medal for Catching Someone in an Easily Correctible and Ultimately Trivial Mistake.

We are the Democratans!

Andy, have you ever considered switching to decaf?

Oh, and by the way:

The rate for taking out a full-page ad in the NYT 6 times a year in the global weekday edition?

$66,359!

Hm. Could it be that MoveOn gets a volume discount? Or is that an “easily correctible error” that the reporter at The Post conveniently omitted?

Andy, have you ever considered switching to decaf?

Have you ever considered flinging a witticism that isn’t canned?

Actually no I haven’t.

Sure. Sorry to restate the obvious.

So…

Have you figured out the NYT ad rate card yet?

UPDATE: For those oblivious to the blatantly obvious, advertising vehicles, including the New York Times, give volume and term discounts for ad buys. The $65,000 quoted for the Betray Us ad is in line with standard V&T for Op-Ed buys of at least six (6) full-page ads per one (1) year period. If MoveOn wants to commit to twelve (12), then their per-ad rate drops again.

Imagine that.

So will Glen further update the story based on Andy’s well documented evidence, or will he allow a blatant piece of misinformation to stand in an effort to prove that one of the publication that put Judith Miller on the Iraq story is playing favorites with the liberals?

Stay tuned…

But wait! I haven’t proven that MoveOn couldn’t have gotten a V&T, or that they have one in place! Plausible theories are irrelevant if they were omitted by the truth squad crusaders at the NY Post! Reading Drudge makes you smarter! Liberal bias is alive! ALIIIIIIIIVE!

Since it so “well documented”, I updated.

No Miss Beale and others, Glen has it right. “Democratic” is a type of government - “Democrat” is a political party. Simply put, “democratic” is an adjective. It is not a noun.

Haven’t we already had this discussion??

Of course, if someone wants to openly demonstrate their ignorance of 200 years of history by talking about the “Democrat Party,” then who am I to tell them not to. Being an American grants us the freedom to make ourselves look uneducated I suppose.

Thank you Dolphin for recognizing my freedom to look uneducated. I will continue to exercise that freedom, at least when I can remember to. It’s really good to be free. God bless America.

Thank you, Glen.

Think that the NY Post follows trackbacks and will update their biased coverage accordingly?

Stay tuned…

Those Democratics sure are thin skinned. Be nice now.

Andy you are right, the NY Post is biased and no they aren’t going to report something that doesn’t fit their agenda, not unless the story is so big that they have to. This is the way all media works, including the NY Times.

Of course nobody is as biased as us bloggers. I still haven’t written anything about Larry Craig. Of course I never heard much or thought much about him before this little “incident”.

My only thought on Larry Craig is that if I was as full of shit as him, I’d probably have a pretty wide stance on the toilet too.

Oooh!

Read this-un: http://mediamatters.org/items/200701160004?offset=20&show=1

[…] few days ago, I posted on the subject of the MoveOn/Patreaus ad that was run in the New York Times. In an update to the […]