Hell, if anyone was going to turn out to be a Lesbian I thought it would’ve been Starbuck. I think one lesbian couple in the military is not going too far.

If it makes you feel any better, on BBC’s Torchwood they actually have a male gay character (who doesn’t personify the stereotypes), which is far from the norm in most Science Fiction shows.

It’s not that I have a problem with lesbians. I have a problem with

a) the depiction of them as always conniving on BSG (see also: 3 & 6 working over Baltar last season)

b) their appearance seems to be either to titillate fanboys or to be conniving. Unlike Ivanova and Talia in B5, the BSG Lesbianish Characters seem to exist only to be underhanded in some way.

c) the way Lesbianism is handled in BSG is only an extension of the way women are handled in general. Women are either nagging whinemongers (ie. Dualla, Callie), villianous robots (Boomer, Six, Three) Tough tomboys (Starbuck, chick from the Razor movie, Kat) deeply flawed maternal figures with substance problems (President Roslyn, Starbuck’s mom, Mrs. Adama) or some combination thereof.

I think that’s one reason Bionic Woman failed to gel–they tried to move the whole Women Are Soulless Robot Bitches to a non-space platform and it just didn’t work. God, that show was boring.

But aren’t most of the men in BSG flawed in some way? Both Adama’s have issues of their own, though more prominent in the Lee who has whiny daddy issues.

But, lets face it, the Sci-fi audience is more male than female, and perhaps the writers have that in the back of their minds when creating scripts, but compared to a show like Star Trek which had most of the women as background characters who would end up being used merely for sex, I think Sci-fi shows have come a long way in the roles they have for women.

Kat, would you say that the women in BSG are titillating, whining connivers is similar to the way so many of the characters in “The Wire” are criminals or so many of the characters in FNL are teenagers (i.e. they are showing a skewed sample of the population because that’s what the show is about), or because the writers can’t envision (or, at least, can’t write) female characters who are otherwise? Because, I gotta say, when I hear a show being compared to “The Wire” and FNL all the time I don’t expect to hear that it can’t get half the sexes right.

Aaargh! “would you say that the way the women in BSG etc.”

Hmmm. That’s a hard one.

I think that I’d have to say when I personally compare BSG to FNL & The Wire I do so because

a) They have an arc or two that pays off over the long haul and have good continuity

b) They tend to be good uses of fiction as societal critique

c) They don’t underestimate the intelligence of their audience

I do think, however, that of the 3 shows, BSG is probably going to hold up to be the weakest over time. That’s not really a bad thing, because all 3 are excellent examples of the best uses of the medium of TV fiction, IMHO.

But BSG has a lot of the problems inherent in Sci Fi, as Braisted alludes to.

It’s hard being a woman in the Sci Fi world. (prime example: Femtroopers.) There’s a large segment of Sci Fi fandom which hyperemphasises the adolescent idealised female sexuality in a way that is kinda creepy.

I think that while the writers of BSG WANT to write you’ve-come-a-long-way-baby characters into the show, they are in the main still Sci Fi writers and have that Achilles heel.

For instance, Sean says “but aren’t most of the men flawed, too?”

Yes, they are. (Daddy Issues are a big deal on this show) But it seems as though the men’s flaws are not necessarily depictions of male stereotypes in unflattering ways. Except for the much-overdone Daddy Issue crap.

The male characters’ flaws tend to be things like alcoholism, prejudice, misplaced loyalty. Oh, and trusting women (bad! bad!). In short, the men are people with problems.

The women are generally problems in human form. Or robotic human form.

It’s hard being a woman in the Sci Fi world. (prime example: Femtroopers.)

Well, you could read Russ or Tiptree or even Cherryh (a much inferior stylist, but with a good grasp of gender issues) for fighting women in starships. But I take what you’re saying to mean that it’s hard to be a woman in a sci-fi world written by men. Which can be true.

This is the greatest SEO post title ever.

There’s a large segment of Sci Fi fandom which hyperemphasises the adolescent idealised female sexuality

Yes. Because otherwise it’s a bunch of robots and Yodas and shit.

I would just like to say that Carter on Stargate: SG-1 (and now Atlantis) is a great female character. Check out the show if you get the chance.

If it makes you feel any better, on BBC’s Torchwood they actually have a male gay character (who doesn’t personify the stereotypes), which is far from the norm in most Science Fiction shows.

Gene Roddenberry interviewed with The Advocate magazine and unveiled that he most definitely envisioned gay people serving aboard Enterprise and in fact there had been an episode written centering around a gay couple (one member of which was Kirk’s nephew, I believe), but by the time it came to produce it Roddenberry wasn’t directly handling it any more and the gay stuff got stripped from it. I imagine if Roddenberry had had his way and the episode had aired it would have effected the frequency with which the gay male was portrayed in SciFi.

I would just like to say that Carter on Stargate: SG-1 (and now Atlantis) is a great female character. Check out the show if you get the chance.

That’s definately true.

Starbuck’s character I think exists precisely as a yang to the yin of the “nagging whinemongers” feminine stereotype — i.e. you can imagine the writers thinking . o O ( we need a female lead character that KICKS ASS for a change.. how can we do that? hmm, I guess we’ll make her like a dude. )

From a practical standpoint, scissoring in zero gravity has got to be much easier.

I like a man who’s practical. Although in this case, he owes me a new keyboard.

[…] was awesome — and, I didn’t really see the big deal about the lesbians in space. (See here for discussion.) I didn’t see this particular instance of lesbianism as anything insidious. […]