Thanks for highlighting the terrible proposal. You know I’ve already emailed him and will add my blog-voice to stopping this bill.

Don’t mess with responsible dog owners!

Laws already exist to punish those who are cruel to dogs and for those who engage in the crime of dogfighting. This bill is just nonsensical.

[…] WELL AS: The Lone Libertarian Mike Silence Music City Bloggers Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and […]

I think so too. The meanest dog I’ve ever run into was a teacup poodle with a really bad disposition. They gonna ban them too?

How is it constitutional let alone legal for the government to pass legislation against something so specific? As pet trends come and go,would there be retro laws against German Shepards (50s), Doberman Pinschers(80’s), Rottweilers (90s) and the odd amphibious rodent/marmot?

Let’s go ahead and pass a law against getting any trendy pet and then dumping it after the trend passes-pot bellied pigs, Dalmations, standard Collies (Lassie Dogs), Caimans, Pythons and Desktop Beta Fish in vases with plants.

I can’t say I’m particularly sympathetic; I hate big dogs. I’d oppose the legislation, but I really dislike most of the commonly targeted breeds.

Sara, you forgot alpacas.

From everything I’ve experienced about pitbulls, I tend to believe that their violent tendencies are not environment driven, but is part of their general disposition.

Personally, I’ll be glad when this particular breed is gone from the face of the earth. Or are relegated to zoos like other dangerous animals.

If you make it a crime to own a pit bull, only criminals will HAVE pit bulls.

But we love Alpacas, right? That’s was the commercials say.

I think all animals that spit should be banned.

I tend to believe that their violent tendencies are not environment driven, but is part of their general disposition.

Any dog, no matter what breed, can be dangerous if untrained. But dogs only do what their owners allow them to do. Every dog that bites or attacks has an owner that is the whole problem. They’ve never trained their dog and they’ve never socialized their dog.

Not all Pitbulls are sweethearts.This is akin to a ban on handguns, in some ways. Before you scream for my head, just think about it.

By the way,I own three wonderful dogs; an aging Pyranees,an idiot Cocker/Cavalier mix,and a Coldhearted Vicious Killer Chihau….Oh,hell,however you spell it!

What does Kilby propose people do with their dogs?

This is incredibly dumb. Another Constitutional retard. These idiots should have to pass a test on the Constitution in order to serve.

Of course that would make most of them ineligible.

I’ve posted the letter I wrote on my site.

Folks, those of you who think because you’ve never met a “nice” “pit bull,” well, that’s anecdotal crap. If that’s the test, then we need to get rid of chihuahuas too, because most of the chihuahuas I’ve known have been vicious little ankle biters. How many other people think chihuahuas tend to be mean little dogs? If enough of us think it, then lets arrest the owners and kill the dogs. Ya know, because that’s my experience, so it must be everybody else’s too.

@Number9: When the person gets “caught,” they would have a misdemeanor and the dog would be stolen - um, excuse me, I meant, “surrendered to the Humane Society.” Clearly we should ban human beings, because some of them can be aggressive and even trained to fight.

Senator Tommy Kilby wants to kill my dog.
That’s all I know.

This makes me very angry, very scared, and very sad.

Senator Tommy Kilby wants to kill my dog.
That’s all I know.

This makes me very angry, very scared, and very sad.

Well, I hope you will do something about it. Use your megaphones to rally the troops! I can help with Photoshop and routine HTML if you can put together the other folx to do up a petition database… or set one up at, um… here (or similar… know nothing about this outfit).

I’ll do what I can — I think this is a ridiculous bill, and I don’t just assume it will not become law at some point.
.

Help! I’m in Akismet hail!
.

When the person gets “caught,” they would have a misdemeanor and the dog would be stolen - um, excuse me, I meant, “surrendered to the Humane Society.”

So Tommy Kilby wants to kill thousands of Tennessee citizens pets?

We really need a recall provision at the State level. We have one on the ballot in Knox County.

Here’s the other thing I wonder. Could you imagine being the folks who work at animal shelters who will have to house and euthanize these dogs?

I mean, it’s hard enough on these folks when they have to put down dogs they can’t find homes for, but having to put down beloved pets that people still want, while listening to folks like me scream and cry in their front rooms while they do it?

That’s going to be great fun.

I wonder if the animal shelters could refuse to participate.

JP, I fished you out…

Ginger — Bless Yore ♥!
.

y’all are comparing animals that spit, and nip at ankles, to vicious dogs that kill and maim?

Perhaps it’s y’all who should be euthenized.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf
look at that pdf and check out the list for pitt bull terrier

y’all are comparing animals that spit, and nip at ankles, to vicious dogs that kill and maim?

No, they’re comparing “animals that spit, and nip at ankles” to peaceful fun-loving dogs who wouldn’t hurt a fly.

Nobody is arguing that aggressive dogs should be free to roam the street but most “pitbulls” aren’t aggressive. In fact, according to the AKC, one of the traits of an American Staffordshire Terrior (one of the breeds called “pitbull”) is that it is “ridiculously amicable.”

That’s the other thing. There is no such thing as a “pitbull.” This “breed-specific” legislation is anything but. I’ve seen “pitbulls” that were smaller than my largest cat. All a “pitbull” is, is a dog that somewhat resembles one of a number of different breeds.

Cars kill many, many, many, many times more people than pitbulls. Perhaps we should ban them?

Perhaps it’s y’all who should be euthanized.

The homeless guy favors dogie genocide? And for those people who don’t agree with him human euthanasia?

It’s all about the love. Be sure to give to a panhandler today.

Pits are amicable up to the point they decide to rip your arm off. That makes them all the more dangerous. I’ve been around pits that were supposedly raised to be “good doggies” and they all had very tempermental sides, and occassionally the owners had to remind them who the boss was by using physical force.

Just look at that report and read the numbers for yourself. They are dangerous animals, without any prompting from humans.

This sounds like (yet) another un-enforceable law looking for a politician to add to his/her “I protected the public when…” resume. Just who-the-heck gets to decide which animals are this particular breed?..or what percentage of this particular breed?

Wouldn’t it make more sense to pass a law to require that irresponsible dog owners be tattoo’d with “Mean Dog Owner” across the forehead?

Just look at that report and read the numbers for yourself. They are dangerous animals, without any prompting from humans.

You’ll have to point out where in the report it says that “pitbulls” are inherently dangerous without human prompting. Pitbulls have the unfortunate position of being the dog of choice for “bad people.” Of course the number of attacks by them is going to be high. Of course the interesting thing is that this legislation won’t do anything to remove dangerous dogs. Because, by and large, the people who raise their dogs to be violent aren’t law abiding citizens anyways. The dogs affected will be the ones in loving home who are as friendly as any other dog.

Again, I repeat. Are you arguing that we ban cars? Cars kill more people than pitbulls. If we’re banning anything that could possibly hurt anyone, even if that item isn’t intended to hurt people and by and large exists without hurting people, cars make FAR MORE sense to ban than pitbulls.

Cars kill many, many, many, many times more people than pitbulls. Perhaps we should ban them?

Cars carry insurance to compensate for any damage, perhaps that should be for “aggressive” dogs. Reputable breeders pretty much agree that there are breeds that tend to be more aggressive, some to the point of concern, if not handled properly. How can the general public be protected from these dogs and their less than responsible owners.

I know of at least one insurance company that wouldn’t write a homeowner’s policy for people with one of the “aggressive” breeds.

Kevin:
1. The mere fact that the Merritt Clifton report has a category labeled “Pit Bull Terrier” is a dead give away of its inaccuracy. Pit Bull is not a breed. This report has been panned up and down by dog experts and specialists for what an inaccurate picture of dog bites it gives. Go here or here or here .

Clifton’s report never mentions that there is a huge discrepancy between actual hospital records and press accounts of dog attacks — between relatively objective data, in other words, and highly subjective reporting and editing with an eye to selling papers. The report fails to acknowledge that a number of factors are involved whenever any dog bites. The report includes statements about dog behavior which have no basis in science, and statements about breed-specific traits which bear no relation to the actual history, behavior or modern development of the breed being discussed [in this case, the German shepherd]. Clifton’s concluding statements regarding the inevitability of attacks by certain dogs are impossible to substantiate, and as a result seem simply prejudiced and inflammatory. (from the first link given)

2. “I’ve been around pits that were supposedly…”
Again, this is ANECDOTAL. Can we all just agree to stop with the anecdotal. It means nothing. People tell me I need to eat oranges to get Vitamin C, but in my experience, citrus fruits make me break out in a horrible rash. So following your logic, I have to believe that oranges are poisonous. Let’s take them off the market because they have made me sick.

3. You want anecdotal?: I NEVER have to tell my dog not to hurt someone. Any good pet owner regularly lets their dog know that She/He is the boss. It’s called being a good pet owner. I had a Sheltie/Golden Retriever mix that LOVED to bark people out of the yard and then jump on them to say hello. I had to remind her who was boss. She scared people even though she was no more than 45 lbs of fur and bark.

Car and Guns don’t have temperaments and minds of their own - but pits sure do. That breed is responsible for more attacks on people than just about all other breeds combined.

I do find it odd, how people can look at a bad person like sadam husein and justify destroying an entire country because of him; and yet you recoil at the thought of protecting people from this breed of dangerous dog.

Should the next toddler eaten alive by pitbulls be yours, before you understand?

The worst dog I ever met was a cocker spaniel. And I’m not alone in that, I know several people that think cocker spaniels are generally pretty mean.

Even so, I’m not about banning them, either. How about we actually go after the people who are breeding these pit bulls to be fighters instead of banning the entire breed? The people right behind my house were clearly breeding fighters. I called Rutherford County animal control about it, and nothing was ever done, they still are in operation (well, last I checked, back when it was warm.)

“How can the general public be protected from these dogs and their less than responsible owners.”

Captain:
By properly funding Animal Control so it is able to enforce laws currently on the books. By passing laws that don’t allow dangerous criminals to own pets and enforcing those laws. By enacting tougher laws and fines for the folks that break the law regarding pet ownership. By enacting a “no tether” law (or at least stricter tethering laws) in Tennessee to keep people from tying dogs up in the backyard all day. By helping to fund programs that offer free spay and neutering and shots for pet owners who can’t afford to do so. By offering low cost or funded dog-behavior / dog training classes to people. By requiring ALL pet owners who aren’t breeders (or who don’t work specifically with breeders)to have there pets spayed and neutered. To educate kids in school on proper pet care.

I’d say that’s a start.

And the reason “bad” people choose pits to raise them as attack dogs is because the breed is predisposed to aggression.

Wow, calls for “proper funding.” How f-ing ironic is that?

People complain about panhandlers and homeless people in general. Experts and advocates say that the only way to end panhandling and homelessness is with proper funding. Still, y’all go and pass laws banning panhandling, and persistently seek to make homelessness and poverty illegal.

You don’t see the hypocrisy?

Kevin… I’m going to say it again…
PIT BULL IS NOT A BREED.
Like Hound is not a breed.

All sorts of dogs bite people. If 68 Chows bite and 59 Labs bite, does that mean Labs get to stay but kill all the Chows?

What is the total number of Chows that DIDN’T bite? You see, the numbers are only significant if we have a total number of Chows to compare it to.

That is to say, if in one city there are a total of 100,000 dogs, and 2500 of those dogs are those Chows I mentioned above, and 2000 of those dogs are the Labs, that means, statistically, 2.72% of ALL Chows bit, while 2.95% of all Labs bit. Statistically, the Labs are more apt to bite.

Kevin, you really don’t have a leg to stand on. Show me REAL facts.

How many dogs are there in the US?
How many of those dogs are Staffordshire Terriers? AM Staffs? APBTs? American Bulldogs?
How many of the US’s dogs a are mixed breeds. What are the mixes?

When you can answer me that, we’ll have something to talk about.

Um, Kevin honey. I don’t live in Nashville. I didn’t write the new law, vote for the new law, support the new law.

I think there should be funding for homeless shelters, for programs that help people get off the street and into a home or job. I think we should go back to the pre-Ronnie days when we didn’t kick the psychologically needy back out onto the street after 48 hours observation.

Who the h311 are you calling a hypocrite?

“the breed is predisposed to aggression.”

Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

Kevin, what is your background in animal behavior? What work have you done with dog training? Please elucidate us with your knowledge of breed standards?

Please, we’d love to know.

Talk about a Strawman arguement!

http://aussie_news_views.typepad.com/aussie_news_views/2005/09/pit_bull_attack.html

OK Kevin, let’s play it your way. You want straw man?

Reports in the press show that:
Homeless people are drug addicts and/or alcoholics.
Homeless people are criminals and commit crimes to support there bad habits.
Homeless people are potential psychotics who want to kill me or my loved ones.

Ergo, homeless people are bad people. There are no good homeless people. I once got bugged by a homeless person, so they are bad.

PLEASE show me where breed standards say that “pit bulls” are predisposed to aggression. This must be from a reputable source.

Oh yeah, Dorothy, the Tinman, and the Cowerdly Lion are waiting for you in the Emerald City.

Define aggression. Aggression toward people or toward other animals?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/england/merseyside/6222319.stm

http://news.google.com/news?q=pit+bull+attack+child&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&ndsp=18&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=in

Can we stick to America Kevin?

Here
Here
Here
Here
and Here

http://news.google.com/news?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&ndsp=18&tab=in&q=pit+bull+attack&btnG=Search+News

Stuck in Akismet!
Help!

Cars carry insurance to compensate for any damage, perhaps that should be for “aggressive” dogs.

Guess what? If your dog attacks me you ARE responsible for the damages.

The mere fact that the Merritt Clifton report has a category labeled “Pit Bull Terrier” is a dead give away of its inaccuracy.

Well techincally, the UKC does recognize the breed “American Pit Bull Terrier” (though the AKC does not). Still, your point is on in that the term “pitbull” applies to an array of breeds.

And the reason “bad” people choose pits to raise them as attack dogs is because the breed is predisposed to aggression.

No the reason “bad” people choose them is because they’re strong. If I’m buying a car for the purpose of running somebody over, I’ll probably get a Hummer, not a Nano.

That’s also another reason why “pit bull” attack numbers are artificially inflated. You get bit by a Pomeranian, you wash it off and put a Band-Aid on. You get bit by one of the larger types of dogs called “pit bulls” you’ll probably report it. Alot of the smaller dogs have very small bite rates on paper but could give larger dogs a run for there money as far as aggressiveness goes (there again it’s not the dogs fault in that case either, because you generalyl see more aggressive small dogs because owners don’t control them figuring their size makes them “harmless”).

OTHER DOGS BITE!

Little dogs kill

I still go on my own experiences with pits. And that pits do kill, and at a much higher rate than any other dog.

Save our vicious dogs - bomb the hell out of innocent Iraqi citizens.

It’s the American Way.

“One,” is not a number that disproves a trend.

I still go on my own experiences with pits.

Well as long as we’re clear that you want to rip families apart just because YOU don’t like how they’re composed. I guess we can agree to disagree.

Thank you dolphin…

I still go on my own experiences with pits.

So what you are saying is that my experience with bully breeds counts for nothing? That only YOUR experience counts?

One? There is a link there to a whole bunch of non pit bull breed attacks. That was there … oh never mind Kevin. If they pass the law, how bout I pay to let you come up here to Knoxville and you can personally kill my dog as she oh-so threateningly lies napping on the couch? Will that make yo a big man, Kevin? Will that make you right? Will that make you happy? Will that make you a hero? Will that mean that all dog attacks will end in Tennessee? I guess it does. You’re the expert on dogs after all. You know so much about them.

Save our vicious dogs - bomb the hell out of innocent Iraqi citizens.

The school of William. Take two completely different issues and tie them together. You left out Bush/Hitler. I hear he has a hell hound named Barney. Do you want to kill his dog too?

…Could you imagine being the folks who work at animal shelters who will have to house and euthanize these dogs?

I mean, it’s hard enough on these folks when they have to put down dogs they can’t find homes for, but having to put down beloved pets that people still want, while listening to folks like me scream and cry in their front rooms while they do it?
…
I wonder if the animal shelters could refuse to participate.

Not to mention how they are going to fund this measure. If we already are unable to adequately fund Animal Control agencies, what part of Tennessee’s butt is this potential law going to pull the money from?

Not to mention how they are going to fund this measure.

Let’s see, another .5 cent on the Sales Tax for dogie genocide?

Was Kilby trying to out stunt legislate Stacey Campfield?

“Was Kilby trying to out stunt legislate Stacey Campfield?”

Newscoma actually calls it, “pulling a Stacy.”

I suppose the University of Georgia will have to leave its mascot at home when its sports teams visit Vanderbilt.

At least we know you aren’t biased, ms. editor.

No Db. They can bring him in since their mascot is an A href=”http://www.nicknamemania.com/ugas.jpg”>English Bulldog and not an American Bulldog. Although, if the powers that be think it’s a “pit bull,” or even 50% or more “pit bull,” they’ll kill him.

On the contrary, I do know that I am biased. I have a well behaved, wonderful dog who has done NOTHING WRONG, and YOU want to kill her and make me a criminal.

Heck yeah I’m biased.
And I know it.

Throw it at me Kevin. Keep it up. It’s fun, isn’t it? Yeah. Feels good, huh?. Just say: “Ms. Editor. I want to kill your dog.”

Go ahead, killer.
Just say it. Because if you advocate this proposed legislation, then that’s what you want. You want to kill my dog.

http://www.whas11.com/topstories/stories/010208whasasTopPitbullAttack.d8e514.html
Two quotes commonly found in such articles as this:

“He calls his pit-bull friendly, saying the dog has never attacked anyone, and this behavior is uncharacteristic.”

“She claims the 3-year-old male pit-bull would not loosen his grip at all, and that it took three men to pull the dog off of her.”

Louisville, KY. — Twenty-six-year-old Amanda Lynch is now at home, recovering from what she calls a vicious dog attack. Lynch says she woke up this New Year’s Day with bandages wrapped around her hand and bicep. Surgeons stitched the inside and outside of her arm. She was in constant pain.

According to Lynch, seconds after she walked in the door of an acquaintance’s house, his pit-bull attacked her. She claims the 3-year-old male pit-bull would not loosen his grip at all, and that it took three men to pull the dog off of her.

Whas11 spoke with the dog’s owner by phone. He told us he is upset about the situation and sorry it happened. He calls his pit-bull friendly, saying the dog has never attacked anyone, and this behavior is uncharacteristic.

Lynch filed a police report on Tuesday and the pit-bull is currently in quarantine at metro animal services. Jackie Gulbe with metro animal services says they will hold the dog in quarantine until the court date. Gulbe also stressed importance of letting guests know before they arrive that you have a dog.

Meanwhile, Amanda lynch is scheduled to return to the hospital early next week for a check-up, and may need to undergo surgery again.

And by the way, Kevin, you still haven’t answered my questions or fulfilled my requests. I’ll repeat them:

1.What is your background in animal behavior?

2. What work have you done with dog training?

3.Please elucidate us with your knowledge of breed standards.

4.PLEASE show me where breed standards say that “pit bulls” are predisposed to aggression. This must be from a reputable source. (not some news item about a dog bighting or attack)

5. Define aggression. Aggression toward people or toward other animals?

6. So what you are saying is that my experience with bully breeds counts for nothing? That only YOUR experience counts?

Girl savaged by Labrador as she plays
NICOLA STOW

A THREE-YEAR-OLD girl was today set to undergo plastic surgery after being attacked by a dog as she
played in a neighbour’s garden.
Lucy Warren-Hill was playing in the garden beside her grandparents’s home when the brown Labrador
pounced on her, biting her face several times.
The attack, which happened at East Craigie Farmhouse on the Dalmeny Estate, near South Queensferry,
left the girl with several facial injuries.
Her grandmother, Jeanette White, today said part of the youngster’s nose had been bitten off during the
attack.
It is thought that the dog may have been attracted by a toy which Lucy was playing with before attacking
the three-year-old.
Mrs White, 65, said Lucy had been playing with her neighbour Hester Davies’ children prior to the attack.
She only knew what had happened when Ms Davies rushed to the house carrying her screaming grand-
daughter.
She said: “I heard all this loud screaming. It was Lucy. Hester was with her and we brought Lucy indoors.
That’s when I noticed that her face was covered in blood and her nose and forehead were cut up. Part of
her nose looked like it was just coming away from her face. The poor thing was just howling.”
She added: “Hester called for an ambulance - she was also in a hell of a state. Fortunately, the ambulance
arrived in about ten minutes and Lucy was taken to the Sick Kids Hospital. It is such a shame - she’s only
three and she’s such a pretty young girl. We are all pretty shaken.”
Lucy had come up from London with her mother, Annie Dawson, 39, to visit her grandparents for Easter.
Lucy was this morning awaiting emergency plastic surgery at the Royal Hospital for Sick Children.
But Mrs White, who has lived on the Dalmeny Estate for 23 years with husband Alexander, 88, said she
didn’t want the dog put down because of the attack.
“He is usually such a friendly dog. It must have been a one-off attack.” Mrs White added.
One farm worker, who did not wish to be named, said the girl was playing with a toy in the garden when
the dog pounced on her.
He said: “I think maybe the dog went for the toy at first and because the girl was playing with it the dog
has become agitated and gone for her. The poor girl was bitten on the side of her face, forehead and nose.”
A police spokeswoman said the girl was taken to the Sick Kids Hospital following the attack, which
happened just before 5pm last night.
Ms Davies declined to comment when contacted by the Evening News today.
Complaints about Labradors harming humans are rare despite concern about attacks by other breeds in
recent years.
The Dangerous Dogs Act, brought in by the last Conservative Government, places special controls ove

I own several dogs. I think there is some “pit” in one of them. I have to agree that there is something to the argument that once “they” get aggressive, it is nearly impossible to bring them back around. I called our local animal control guy, and he, (like me) thinks its a stupid bill, but he says that pits make him nervous sometimes. It isn’t hysteria, I think the fear is real and grounded in tons of anecdotal evidence.

I do find it interesting that a stupid bill that has no chance of making it out of committee generates 60 plus comments though. Like i said, i own dogs, and i love them, but something in me would love to see this kind of outrage generated over people issues.

Escaped Labrador dies after pastor fends off attack

Ron Gleason, 61, who stabbed the runaway animal to protect his German shepherd,
will not face charges.

By ELLYN PAK
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

ORANGE - A yelping sound drew Julie and Doug Simpson outside their Avila Place home Sunday evening to find a black Labrador gasping for air as blood gushed from its side.

Neighbors quickly clustered around the animal, holding a towel at its wound and waiting for animal control officers.

“Everybody was petting it and wondering what to do,” said neighbor Bill Braun. “It looked like a gunshot wound.”

At about the same time, Ron Gleason, 61, was walking Hosanna, his 80-pound German shepherd back home to clean wounds she received during an attack by the Labrador.

Gleason, pastor at Grace Presbyterian Church in Yorba Linda, said he had been walking Hosanna on Cannon Street when the black dog ran down the hill, dodged an oncoming car and veered toward the pair.

He said the dog bit Hosanna’s shoulder, side and leg. He said he kicked the dog several times, but it wouldn’t back off.

That’s when he grabbed his pocket knife and stabbed the dog in the neck and under its armpit.

“I feel badly about it,” Gleason said. “We love dogs. At the same time, I felt I didn’t have a choice. I have never done anything like this in my life.”

Ryan Drabek, spokesman for Orange County Animal Care Services, said charges will not be filed because Gleason acted out of self-defense.

On Monday, neighbors learned the 8-year-old Labrador had escaped from a nearby Cerritos Drive home, slipping out a gate left open by construction workers.

At first, owner Jimmy Lu thought neighbor Doug Simpson was joking when he told him about Sunday’s incident.

“I was ready to get the leash and pick him up,” Lu said. “I was shocked.”

“My dog was super-friendly. He played with the neighbors. There’s no point in stabbing to kill.”

The dog’s name was Tobi.

I’m done.

Mack, I love you and all, but don’t pull that crap about why can’t we care as much about people issues. That’s pulling a Stacy. We do care about people issues. But we’re talking about THIS issue right now. When the law wants to arrest you and kill your dogs… you’d feel equally impassioned.

Like i said, i own dogs, and i love them, but something in me would love to see this kind of outrage generated over people issues.

For instance, it would be illegal to use the same substance used in lethal injection of a human to euthanize an animal.

Doesn’t that seem wrong?

Firt we had “Kirked”, now “pulling a Stacy”.

One day, people will talk about “A Slarti”, but more than likely it’ll have something to do with digestive problems.

Geez kevin,

I can post links to news stories about poodles attacking people (and even of poodle’s attacking pitbulls). Should we ban poodles too?

Editor, appreciate the love, consider yourself loved right back. Please understand that I am not saying that you or anyone else in this thread cares less about people issues, I’m saying that i find it interesting that dog (or pet) issues generate this much heat. I also realize that our animals cannot speak up for themselves, so we are fiercely protective of them. I get all that. I guess I’m saying that many bloggers/activists bring hoorible injustices to our collective attention daily, and yet, to me at least, it seems none of them get this much play.

I think its noteworthy, so i brought it up.

They’re going to need somebody to kill all these dogs.

Somebody around here needs a job.

Seems like a perfect fit to me.

I said I was done but.

1. Love to Mack and point taken.

2. Anonymous (Period). poster…

Somebody around here needs a job.

Thank you for making me snort apple cider out my nose. It burns, but it’s a good burn.

Just got in from Memphis. Sorry I haven’t been around today.
Pretty happy about “pulling a Stacy”comment making it over here. I hope it goes in the urban dictionary.
With that said, My sister had 13 stiches in her lip from a beloved Westie we owned. He bit her.
Kevin, I’m eager to hear about what exactly happened with your incident with a pit.
Squirrel Queen had an American Staff for about 14 years. It never hurt a soul. I have another friend with a pit who is wonderful. Great dog.
And, they aren’t a breed.
Just saying.
Here’s the thing, The Editor loves her dog. Aunt B, Say Uncle …
Me, for that matter. I have three.
I see a violation of civil liberties happening here. Arrest those douchenozzles that fight those dogs and make them mean.
Incidentally, I’ve been bit twice by a dog. A stupid ass poodle (tea cup) and a German Shepherd.
I don’t want them banned or destroyed. Responsible, loving pet owners shouldn’t have to pay over their love of the pet for a political publicity stunt.

[…] Addressing an Urban Myth about Pit Bulls Posted on January 19, 2008 by Aunt B. While it’s true that having a pit bull strapped to you will deter some panhandlers from approaching you, I can’t recommend their use in this manner (no matter how tempting it is after reading this thread). […]

Speaking of Memphis:
http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=59d66bf5-b56b-4488-97af-a2cbde529619

Whoops - a couple more dogs - just the biggest lovable lap dogs you’d ever meet - have been terrorizing a neighborhood and occasionally attacking people.

http://mountainenterprise.com/full.php?sid=2239&current_edition=2008-01-18

[…] Aunt B. addressed an Urban Myth about Pit Bulls today, and it got me thinking that there are a lot of bully breed owners out there that probably get tired of news stories about pit bull attacks and how folks try to use those stories […]

Are dogs an issue for the homeless? An impediment to panhandling? I don’t understand your point. Why do you care?

Competition for scraps?

Not a classy thing to say there…

Annually in the United States there are approximately 20 human fatalities directly resulting from a dog attack; this number is miniscule compared with human fatalities caused by gunshot (approximately 12,000 annually), accidents (approximately 100,000 annually) or health related disease processes (click here for table) (Click here for commentary on this subject)

The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls.

In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.

Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks in 1997 and 1998, 67% involved unrestrained dogs on the owner’s property; 19% involved unrestrained dogs off the owner’s property; 11% involved restrained dogs on the owner’s property; and 4% involved a restrained dog off the owner’s property.

Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks during 1997 and 1998, 67% involved an attack by one dog; 19% involved an attack by two dogs; and 15% involved an attack by 3 or more dogs.

From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.

In a study reported by a retired professor from California State University at Chino, Robert Plum, it was found that one dog in 55 will bite someone seriously during the course of a year. With respect to breed differences in the tendency to inflict serious injury, Plumb estimates that when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds.
http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/DogBiteStatistics.html

Yes, Kevin, we all get that you know how to google, cut, and paste. Congratulations. You’ve mastered the basic skills of the internet.

Do you plan on addressing anybody who’s criticized your points or are you just going to continue in this vein?

Yes, Kevin, we all get that you know how to google, cut, and paste.

But apparently he hasn’t learned to research his sources.

It was complied from Richard H. Polsky, Ph.D.’s work.

And what does Dr. Polsky have to say about pit bull breeds?

According to thisTwo local experts in the psychology and training of dogs think the breed is, to a large extent, the victim of incompetent owners and public hysteria.

“The pit bull has the potential to be as docile and polite as most dogs…”

He goes on to say what his research indicates.

…I looked into the issue (of pit bull aggression and dog aggression in general), and at the data published in the journals about dogs most frequently reported to bite, you find springer spaniels, cocker spaniels, German Shepherds, Huskies, and so on. The pit bull is not up there.

Yeah, so whatever Kevin. You want to kill our dogs. But even Sen. Kilby has href=”"http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3410″>changed his mind on this.

Kevin wants to kill our dogs B. That’s pretty clear cut.

Yes, Kevin, we all get that you know how to google, cut, and paste.

But apparently he hasn’t learned to research his sources.

It was complied from Richard H. Polsky, Ph.D.’s work.

And what does Dr. Polsky have to say about pit bull breeds?

According to thisTwo local experts in the psychology and training of dogs think the breed is, to a large extent, the victim of incompetent owners and public hysteria.

“The pit bull has the potential to be as docile and polite as most dogs…”

He goes on to say what his research indicates.

…I looked into the issue (of pit bull aggression and dog aggression in general), and at the data published in the journals about dogs most frequently reported to bite, you find springer spaniels, cocker spaniels, German Shepherds, Huskies, and so on. The pit bull is not up there.

I have been as polite as I’m going to be to someone who has expressed open hostility to a member of my family and wishes to see her dead.

Kevin wants to kill our dogs B. That’s pretty clear cut.

Kevin wants to kill our dogs B. That’s pretty clear cut.

Not exactly a fund raising genius is he?

Give to the homeless, we want to kill your dog.

Needs some work.

I will start an underground railroad for anyone who is criminalized by their ownership of a pooch.
.

I never really wanted a pit bull before, but if all the homeless are as scared of them as Kevin, I might have to reconsider.

(Hope you all can wade through my html errors on that last comment)

http://www.yikers.com/video_pitbulls_attack_children.html

I’m all about protecting people - especially children from being attacked, maimed, or even killed by dogs - the majority of which is done by pitbulls.

it’s plain to see you don’t let any fact, any logic or any sense of reason interfere with your reality Kevin. not sure if that’s admirable, but it is consistent.

Well, I’m just throwing reports by others, including experts, up here to support my position. What more could I do?

Denial of the facts I present here sound a lot like people’s denial of the facts that cigarettes are dangerous. I think it has a lot to do with their emotional attachment to the dogs. It clouds their reasoning. Pit bulls are only 3 percent of the total dog population, but responsible for the majority of attacks on people. It’s time to do something about that.

Pit bulls are only 3 percent of the total dog population…

Source please.

1. Newspaper articles do not count as scientific evidence.

2. Even the source you quoted above (Richard H. Polsky, Ph.D.) disagrees with your assessment of pit bulls.

3. Because I don’t want you to kill my dog, that means my reason is clouded and I’m not concerned with protecting people?

Kevin, you are a very ugly, sick, mean person. The only person bereft of reason around here is you.

We had a saying growing up:
“He’s breathing air a good dog could have.”

A homeless man told police he felt another man had disrespected him and grabbed a two-by-three piece of wood and bashed the man in the head in the middle of a South Side restaurant Tuesday afternoon.
Eric Bruce Hackley, 46, who has no fixed address, is charged with aggravated assault, reckless endangerment, possession of an instrument of crime and possession of heroin. He was arraigned before District Judge William Zaun and is in Northampton County Prison on $40,000 bail.

Police said the attack around 2 p.m. left victim Baron L. Chase, 54, unconscious and bleeding heavily on the floor of Campus Pizza, 22 E. 4th St. Hackley admitted the attack to police and said only he felt that Chase had humiliated and disrespected him.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-n-l-homatk-011608-cn,0,492045.story

That pits are only 3% of the total dog population can be found in and earlier comment I made - look for link - dogexpert.com

As a compromise, I would agree on a moretorium (if that’s the right word) for about 20 years, so that all pits born at this time could be allowed to live out their natural lives. but I’d also insist on all new breeding outlawed, and no new ownerships created. That way in 20 years, there would be no pits in the state - hopefully in the whole country. Next, I’d go after the Rottweilers.

Exador, what percentage of crimes do the homeless committ?

Dr. Polsky again? The one who says pit bulls are misunderstood and account for far fewer bites than news accounts would have you believe? The one who would categorically tell you you are wrong? That Dr. Polsky?

(and by the way, I’ve looked over the dogbite site for “3%.” I found an article Dr. Polsky wrote in 1987 where he claims they make up 1%, but doesn’t site where he came up with this figure… so link please)

Kevin,
What percentage of all deaths US do pit bulls account for?

Above I meant: “…but doesn’t cite where he came up with this figure… “

How many deaths are pit bulls responsible for?

If you were the parent of a child killed by a pit bull, I imagine you’d say that was one too many.

For the deaths of 20 some children each year, I think every god damned pit bull should be killed.

or put it this way:
To save the lives of 20 children each year, it’s worth getting rid of that type of dog.

For the deaths of 20 some children each year, I think every god damned pit bull should be killed.

Is it possible that you are an Internet Narcissist who just wants to get a reaction from a certain group of people that you might have a grudge against?

I don’t see you raising consciousness on your blog on this so-called pit bull baby killing issue.

What I do see if this:

http://thehomelessguy.wordpress.com/2008/01/19/compusa-going-out-of-business/

It’s a free country. Carry on.

According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, in 1997, 4233 children under the age of 20 were killed by handguns. (link)

According to a 2004 report by the National Institute of Mental Health, suicide was the 3rd leading cause of death in all age categories. (link

According to the 2002 National Vital Statistics Report, the Leading Causes of Accidental Death to children 5-14 years of age (the numbers change a little for over and under these ages) in the United States are:
59.5% Motor Vehicle
12.6% Drowning
9.0% Unspecified nontransport accid’ts
8.9% Exposure to Smoke, Fire, Flames
oh and the list goes on…With the total number of deaths being 7,413. (link)

According to the Dog Bite Law Center, “Dog bites cause an average of 18 deaths a year.” Then they go on to say on another page that, “On average about 27 people will be killed by a dog each year in the US.” So I can’t trust that sites numbers, so I’m not going to bother to link it.

According to the Dog Bite Legal Center “In 1997 and 1998, at least 27 people died as a result of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997, and 9 in 1998.” Which means 20 kids dindn’t die in either of those years. Of the 27, Rottweilers were involved in 10 deaths, and Pit Bulls were involved in 6.

I’m still looking for better source and more recent numbers.

So I don’t know where you are getting this 20 children a year business.
CITE YOUR SOURCES!

Exador, what percentage of crimes do the homeless committ?

If you were the parent of…oh I don’t know…the girl who got raped by a homeless guy, you’d think one is too many.

[…] According to retired Police Lieutenant, Jim Crosby, who runs this excellent blog on dog aggression, there were 33 cases of fatal dog attacks in the US in 2007.

Of those 33, 18 were children.
Of those 18, ten of the deaths involved “pit bull breeds.”
3 cases of fatal dog attacks happened in Tennessee. 2 of those were to children. Of those 2, neither involved pit bulls. […]

I heard today that 12 people each day die in America from drunk drivers who are illegal aliens.

I haven’t heard any outrage over that.

Oh my god, you did not just go there!

So says WorldNut Daily, anyway… http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

Hey, how many native-born Yankee assholes kill their fellow citizens a day while driving drunk? What’s *that* death toll?

Let’s see. For 2006, there were 13,470 deaths involving drivers and motorcycle operators with blood alcohol levels of .08 or higher.

About 36 a day.

If we take those WorldNut statistics at face value, that means that if you’re a DUI fatality, odds are 3:2 that you’ll be killed by a native-born.

The drunk/high driver that killed my dad was black.

Does this mean I should group all black people together because some of them drive intoxicated?

Ban ‘em!

Same logic.

Give me a break!

Oh my god, you did not just go there!

Why? Having drunk people who cannot read traffic signs is an issue isn’t it? I think it is.

Essentially it is double impairment. You gasp like I farted or something.

If you cannot read the traffic signs you shouldn’t drive. Isn’t that a reasonable rule? I don’t see that as being prejudiced.

If what Andy quoted is accurate, which is questionable, one third of drunken driving accidents are from illegal aliens. I would imagine some victims are homeless people.

I was illustrating Kevin has more pressing issues for the homeless than pit bulls.

I’m sorry to hear about your father, I did not know of his tragic death.

That is not the direction I was going.

Thanks, Nine.

Why? Having drunk people who cannot read traffic signs is an issue isn’t it? I think it is.

Really!

If it hadn’t been for Roe v. Wade, we’d have 50 million more native drunk drivers to kill our kids!
.

I think you mean “50 million more POTENTIAL native drunk drivers to kill our kids!”

I think you mean “50 million more POTENTIAL native drunk drivers to kill our kids!”

No, I think your side got it right — since they were unwanted, they’d all be abused/neglected, so they’d grow up, take shitty jobs for low wages, and drive drunk.
.

According to the American Medical Association, the Center for Disease Control and the Insurance Information Institute:

* Dog bites are the second leading cause of childhood injury.
* Dogs bite males an average of two times more than females.
* Dogs that are licensed with identifiable owners are implicated in the majority of dog bites.
* 77 percent of dog bite injuries to children are to facial areas.
* Across the United States almost 5 million people a year are bitten by dogs; the average hospital stay for a dog bite injury is almost four days.
* Over a twenty year span, dog attacks resulted in more than 300 human dog bite related deaths in the United States and most of the victims were children.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite

Nice, unbiased source, there Kevin.

www.dogbitelaw.com
Attorney Kenneth Phillips is the author of this web site. He has a unique law practice: he represents only people who have been bitten by a dog.

Kevin,
I don’t even know where to start. I are you just stupid? Look at the data you have from the AAP and then compare it to What the Clifton report says. I mean, I though we’d pretty much shown that the Clifton Report is monkey ka ka. And gosh, it’s one of those days when pigs take flight because Exador and I are on the same page!

Kevin, if you’d read my blog post and followed the links, you would have read this:

Clifton’s data is compiled information of media reports of dog bites that were considered either “deaths or maimings” over a 24 year timeframe listed by “breed”. Clifton uses this data to try to “prove” that pit bulls are more dangerous than other “breeds”.

What’s interesting though, is if you research other sources, such as Dog Bite Law, you’ll note that according to their data, nearly 800,000 dog bites per year are serious enough to require medical attention. Approximately 368,000 victims require an emergency room visit.

So during the 24 year timeframe in which Clifton’s data is pulled, there have been approximately 8.8 million dog bites that have required an emergency room visits and a whopping 19 MILLION bites that require medical attention. Clifton’s data includes 2,209 bites….or .025% of all dog bites that require a trip to the emergency room.

Clearly Clifton’s data involves a statistically insignificant number of dog bites that an ER visit. Why so few recorded?

Well, in many cases the news reports that Clifton reads don’t include the breed of the dog. Many are thrown out based on Clifton’s decision that the attack wasn’t severe enough to include (based 100% from how the newspaper reported the accident, Clifton never visits any of the victims to get a true feel of how “disfiguring an attack is, and I have all kinds of examples of newspaper reports that have over-exaggerated the devastation of an attack, here’s one for an example). Additionally, not nearly every dog attack that occurs is reported by a media outlet — in fact, just a tiny fraction of a percentage of them are.

There are plenty of other reasons why using media reports are misleading…which I’ll attempt to get to later in this series.

Clifton’s data is clearly represents just a small fraction of the overall significant bites. I would suggest that the reason pit bulls show up in such high numbers on his list is due to selective inclusion. Not only do I feel strongly that the media reports pit bull attacks with more regularity, I also feel as if Clifton’s bias against this group of dogs causes him to include more as “maimings” and dismiss those of other breeds more readily. In this case, the data is not even information, is mis-information. Even worse.

And let’s all remember, the CDC stopped doing statistics on dog bite cases because people were using the reports for the wrong purposes?

Have you read the WHOLE CDC report?
Here, I’ll link you to the pdf.

Notice on the very first page it gives the conclusion:

Although fatal attacks on humans appear to be a breed-specific problem (pit bull-type dogs and Rottweilers), other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates. Because of difficulties inherent in determining a dog’s breed with certainty, enforcement of breed-specific ordinances raises constitutional and practical issues. Fatal attacks represent a small proportion of dog bite injuries to humans and, therefore, should not be the primary factor driving public policy concerning dangerous dogs. Many practical alternatives to breed-specific ordinances exist and hold promise for prevention of dog bites. (my emphasis)

According to the American Medical Association, the Center for Disease Control and the Insurance Information Institute

And again, Kevin is using the info complied by Dr. Polsky, who is against BSL and does not agree with Kevin’s stance that all pit bulls are bad.

Oh…
And let’s all remember, the CDC stopped doing statistics on dog bite cases because people were using the reports for the wrong purposes.

Was meant to be a statement, not a question.
Oops.

From the CDC report:

Ideally, breed-specific bite rates would be calculated to compare breeds and quantify the relative dangerousness of each breed.10 fatal attacks by Breed X relative to a population of 10,000 X’s (1/1000) implies a greater risk than 100 attacks by Breed Y relative to a population of 1,000,000 Y’s (0.1/1000). Without consideration of the population sizes, Breed Y would be perceived to be the more dangerous breed on the basis of number of fatalities.

Which means… unless we know the definitive number of dogs of each breed (or mix of breed0, we cannot determine with any certainty which breeds are more dangerous.

The CDC admits in its own report that the report isn’t worth the paper it’s written on because they don’t know real numbers.

You aren’t going to find accurate, across the board, dog bite statistics because they don’t exist.

Something a dog expert said:
“The fighting gene has been ingrained in the pit bull”

http://www.eastbayri.com/story/326315874184520.php
Tom Warzeka helps train Tyson, a 1-year-old pit bull, at the Rhode Island Society for the Prevention of Cruelty Against Animals shelter in Riverside.
EAST BAY — The pit bull is a breed of dog that’s part of American lore, according to Dr. E.J. Finocchio, president of the Rhode Island Society for the Prevention of Cruelty Against Animals (RISPCA). After all, he said, the RCA (”his master’s voice”) dog and Pete the Pup from “The Little Rascals” were both pit bulls.

But it’s also a breed that’s increasingly becoming a problem due the nature of injuries they can inflict on humans, said Dr. Finocchio and Dave Holden, RISPCA director. Dr. Finocchio is convinced that pit bulls are genetically predisposed to being aggressive, since they were originally bred to be fighting dogs as far back as the Roman empire.

“The fighting gene has been ingrained in the pit bull. Man made him this way. It’s our fault that we’ve made them this way,” he said. “But how are you going to get that gene out of them?”

Mr. Holden said what scares him about pit bulls is that they give no warning before attacking — they don’t growl and their hair doesn’t stand on end. In addition, their adrenaline doesn’t stop, he said.

“They fight till the end,” he said, showing a photo of a large Labrador retriever with a huge scar. The dog was dragged around by a much-lighter pit bull, he said. “They lived next door to each other for two years. What set him off?” Mr. Holden said.

Critics, however, say the pit bull — a term that describes several types of dogs with similar physical characteristics but is often used incorrectly — has often been unfairly maligned.

“They’re genetically prone to be more aggressive to animals but not toward people,” said Katenna Jones, an animal behaviorist who started a petition several years ago against a proposal to restrict pit bulls in Providence. The City of Pawtucket banned new pit bulls in 2003, and Ms. Jones and others are worried that other municipalities will do the same.

“It’s a matter of time before they looking at breed-specific legislation,” she said.

Pit bulls who are aggressive toward people are the result of “poor selective breeding” and the owners should take the blame, not the breed, she said. “I have never heard of a case (of an aggressive pit bull) where the dog was properly supervised, spayed and neutered, up to date on shots, properly restrained on a leash and properly trained and socialized as a puppy,” she said.

Ms. Jones acknowledged that pit bulls are not for everyone. “I don’t recommend pit bulls for any first-time dog owner. Pit bulls don’t belong off a leash and they don’t belong in a group of multiple dogs,” she said.

Bristol Animal Control Officer Dyanne Gibree is also against any legislation that singles out pit bulls. “I have more problems with labs than I do with pits,” she said. “I never came across a pit bull that I was afraid of.”

Dr. Finocchio and Dave Holden agree that pit bulls don’t necessarily bite more than other breeds. The problem, however, is the damage they inflict when they do bite.

“I’d much rather get bitten by a Doberman or a shepherd than the pit bull, because they’re going to bite me and screw,” said Mr. Holden. “Most of the bite comes from the back legs. Pit bulls shake. That’s where the ripping and tearing comes from.”

Although some say pit bulls get a bad rap, Dr. Finocchio said the RISPCA itself is often unfairly criticized. “People think that because we may put an inner-city pitbull to sleep for being vicious that we’re anti-pitbull. We can’t put an animal like that out into society.”

Despite what critics may say about skewed data or irresponsible breeders, pit bulls are responsible for more fatalities than any other breed, according to Dr. Finocchio. “After all is said and done, we have a problem in our society with pit bulls,” he said.

One of Dr. Finocchio’s solutions would be to ban the breeding of pit bulls, other than American Kennel Club-registered dogs, for five years. He realizes, however, that any breed-specific law would meet heavy opposition.

And one last thing before I brave this freezing rain…

The American Veterinary Medical Association statess that “in the United States number 500,000 to 800,000 annually. Countless more bites go unreported and untreated.”

With that in mind, consider all those news paper articles on “pit bull” attacks and compare them against the numbers of dog bites. It just doesn’t add up. Even if the lower estimate of a 1/2-million is the closer estimate, what we can gather is that the media isn’t reporting every dog bite; how could they? But even so, that means a lot of dogs are biting. So why aren’t we hearing about it?

Because “Golden Retriever Bites Owner” isn’t as sensational as “Pit Bull Attacks Neighbor.”

Again, for those who didn’t read my post, the National Canine Research Council did a report on the bias of the media. In a 4 day period US dog attacks in the media were tracked. There were four attacks, including a mix-breed stray dog with new puppies who killed a toddler in McMin County, TN last year. It wasn’t a pit bull. It got local coverage (1 mention in the local paper. The 2 incidents received a whopping total of 2 mentions and 1 mention in the local papers. They weren’t pit bulls. 2 days later, a woman was attacked (but not killed) in her home by her own pit bulls and. “This attack was reported in over two hundred and thirty (230) articles in national and international newspapers, as well as major television news networks, including CNN, MSNBC and FOX.”

Bias anyone?

The AVMA (who is a far more reputable organization and source than a lawyer trying to drum up money)states:

There is no such thing as a bad breed of dog. All dogs can bite if provoked. Responsible dog ownership is key.

(You can find the link above–I didn’t want to repeat it.)

I know I’m not going to convince you, Kevin. By your own admittance, you are not a well men. I have, in the past, felt bad for you when folks have harangued you for your situation. But I find that, beyond that, you are unwell in a number of ways that have nothing to do with your homeless status. Your arguments are based on fear, not facts. They are full of hysteria and hearsay. They don’t hold water. When your own poor, argumentative “strategies” are used against you, you cry fowl, without seeing the point that information (hysterical newspaper articles) don’t equal data.

You refuse to ask the questioned leveled at you because you know that you can’t answer some of them without incurring the wrath of the pack. You continue to refer to sources that are inaccurate at best, out of date, and whose experts (Dr. Polsky) are diametrically opposed to POV. Even Sen. Kilby withdrew the BSL from his bill because he was made to see his error when presented with real data from reputable sources.

It’s very difficult to have any sympathy for someone who is incapable of listening to reason and who clings to his fallacies as a child clings to a blanket.

This has been a great conversation guys, but I think we’ve begun to exhaust this conversation. Feel free to continue on at your personal blogs, I am closing the comments on this post.