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Worse than merely ineffective, it exacerbates the effect of bad law. Making someone a criminal for failing to report something they don’t even believe should be crime? These are the makings of a police state.

Isn’t this the last episode of Seinfeld?

Jim:

What happens if I see a man strike a child and don’t call it in, because it looks like some corporal punishment (a swat on the rear) for behavior unbecoming? Would I need to go to night school to take classes so I would know when to make the call?

What idiot liebral dreamed this up?

I call upon Stacey Campfield and Ned Williams to oppose the cramming of morality down my throat.

So, you are walking down the street, and you get jumped - and a couple guys are beating the shit out of you - and if only that old lady who saw it happening would have been compelled by law to call the cops, instead just continued walking her dog - just think, you might have still been alive today.

Kevin:

Or she’s required by law to call the police and as a good citizen she does so. So, she gets her name and photo in the paper and since she’s the only witness to my brutal murder she get’s offed by the same two perps. Perfect!

Here’s an even better scenario. She see’s me getting beat down and since she’s a life NRA member with a Lady Glock she pulls it out and pops both skels–only to find out later that I just brutally raped and murdered their families.

See how much we can have with fiction.

reality - it is already against the law to leave the scene of an auto accident, and people are required to give aid if they can, and call for help. It saves lives.

When’s the last time someone you know was offed for turning in the bad guy? Except on TV?

not as often around here, kevin, but it is a cold hard fact in LA. Interestingly enough, I witnessed a murder many years ago, and was threatened because I went to the police, but not offed.

Kevin:

Why do you find my fiction implausible, but not yours? Witness intimidation, including death threats (some of which are carried out) is not a figment of the imagination.

I don’t know about TN but the law on the books re: leaving the scene of an accident, as far as I know, concerns the vehicle operators involved in the accident. I’ve not just driven by auto accidents, I’ve been told, by cops to leave the area.

I’m not even opposed to people, those who want to, making that call. I’ve done things like that on ocassion when I’ve seen a motorist weaving in and out of traffic at high speed or recklessly or when I see someone acting in a threatening way to another motorist. But, I don’t think a law will solve the problem that this one seeks to remedy. It will just create more criminals.

What is that old saying: “All that it takes for evil to persist is for good people to do nothing.” ???

Wow, you had one incident a couple years ago. In my world, it’s a nearly every day event.

If you want the world to be a better place, then you have to stand up against the shit - push back - and declare your territory.

For example, the panhandlers were getting out of hand in the Church Street - 5th Ave area of downtown. The business and resident interests pushed back, and now panhandlers are a very rare thing in that part of town. Of course those business and resident interests were taking things too far, and were pushing against homeless people of all kinds, not just the panhandlers, so the homeless and their advocates have been pushing back, so that only the panhandlers, and no one else is bothered.

If you don’t want your neighborhood, your city, your country, to go to hell in a handbasket, they YOU have got to make a stand. And really, if you are not brave enough to stand up to criminals, then you are a criminal.

Kevin:

Are you saying I’m a coward or a criminal or both? If you’re saying either you’re incorrect, but you’re entitled to your opinion.

Are you saying that the treatment of the panhandlers (and other homeless persons–panhandlers, btw, are not always homeless) was legal (but excessive) or illegal–criminal–behavior? If it was illegal are those folks who engaged in it criminals?

I don’t know if you own any guns (I don’t but I’m not anti-gun, just anti stupid people with ridiculous amounts or types of weaponry). A lot of people seem to think that outlawing ownership of unlicensed weapons, particularly handguns, would stop people murdering one another with them. I think that is highly unlikely. It might cut down on the numbers of persons murdered and almost certainly would reduce the number of mass murders of the sort that seem to be occurring with distressing frequency in this country. I only mention this to compare and contrast the thrust of the bill that is proposed, criminalizing citizen indifference (or fear of retribution for getting involved) to crimes being committed in their view. There is no doubt that thousands of people die every year from the one cause, people having guns. Conversely, there is not so much evidence re: how many people have been murdered due to the callous indifference (or fear) of bystanders.

My neighborhood, strangely enough, is between 5th and 6th Streets on Church St. (different city) is not, so far as I know, going to hell. If it was I would try to determine what the proximate cause was and contact local, county, state or federal law enforcement if there was a crime problem. If the problem was of some other sort, I would try to work with my neighbors to try and solve the problem. I would try to refrain from name calling and character slurs until I was absolutely sure they were really criminals for not getting involved.

Cowardice is just another form of selfishness.

If you ever witness someone being attacked, I hope to god you forget about yourself for a moment, and at least attempt to help that person, and if you have time, call 911.

If not, you might never be able to live it down.

Kevin:

Are you calling me a coward? I think it’s a pretty simple question to answer.

I asked you several other questions which are also not difficult to answer. To explain the answers might be difficult, but answering them is not.

Instead of answering the questions you set up a strawman.

Aside from the fact that you want to legislate morality, have you thought about the practical aspects of implementing and enforcing such legislation.

What crimes would a person be obligated to report? Only violent crimes or ALL crimes. What if a visitor from out of state is witness to a crime being comitted and does not report it? What if someone is hearing or speech impaired and does not have a TDY/TDD device available to make the call?

Here’s a law I’d like to see enacted:

Any man, anywhere in the world who beats a woman, for any reason, should be castrated.

I think that would cut down on domestic violence and certainly on men’s attacks on women in general; don’t you?

I have a lot of words for your point of view on this subject, your justification for it, and your questions at me. But, I’ll let it slide, as this subject is more important than words.

It is already illegal to withhold evidence of a crime - and not reporting a crime is just another form of it.

Details can be worked out in the construction of the law.

If my daughter was raped, and you witnessed it, and didn’t report it and didn’t try to stop it - if the law didn’t punish your lack of action, I would.

Kevin:

You said:

“I have a lot of words for your point of view on this subject, your justification for it, and your questions at me. But, I’ll let it slide, as this subject is more important than words.”

What is it, Kevin, are you afraid to call me a coward? Or are you just too “decent” a man to tell the truth, because it’s not seemly. Perhaps you think I’m immoral because I don’t support your idiotic state lawmaker’s crusade to criminalize people who don’t want to do what you think they should.

“It is already illegal to withhold evidence of a crime - and not reporting a crime is just another form of it.”

Cite the statute, please.

“Details can be worked out in the construction of the law.”

Um, carte blanche.

“If my daughter was raped, and you witnessed it, and didn’t report it and didn’t try to stop it - if the law didn’t punish your lack of action, I would.”

Okay, so now your position has morphed from I need to report it to I need to report or try to stop it or punish me if the law doesn’t. Would this only apply if the crime was rape or would it cover shoplifting, petit larceny, B&E, hate crimes, indecent exposure, burning brush without a permit and sundry other “crimes” or violations of the law?

I believe what you are saying you would do would be called assault or worse, on my person, by you, Kevin. But, as you said in an earlier comment:

“and if only that old lady who saw it happening would have been compelled by law to call the cops, instead just continued walking her dog - just think, you might have still been alive today.”

Ok, so you are a rough, tough guy who’s going to make me pay if your daughter gets raped and I see it and don’t tell the cops or try to stop the crime? I am absolutely terrified, I think that you might be threatening me. Isn’t threatening people a crime? Oh, wait, you’re just hypothesizing.

You’re moralistic zeal is really getting in the way of your thinking.

Come on Demo, on most things we agree. On this we don’t. Still, I’m not going to jump on your merrigoround just for the sake of argument. While we were all out throwing snowballs at each other, during this odd but pleasant storm we just had, a homeless guy I know died from exposure that night. In retrospect, your hair splitting seems petty.

Kevin
I’ll have to beg off further discussion on this subject for now.

Kevin:

Sorry about the homeless guy, that happens way too frequently. 10-4.

democommie